| As said previously, I guess mature and seinen don't go hand in hand. Not everything targeted to adults will necessarily have mature themes. |
| Mature works are not always sophisticated, I agree but the Seinen term is not designed to distinguish between the two. Plus, you seem to be using the word "mature" and giving it the attributes of the word "sophisticated", which is your own fault when it fails you, because you can have maturity without sophistication. Seinen is just a catch all term for works targeted at male adults who enjoy anything from sexy fanservice and violent action and gore to thought provoking philosophical or psychological works and morality pieces. Some kind of distinction between the two in tags would be helpful, but there are too many works that have both of those so it wouldn't be very practical in application. |
KruszerJun 23, 2015 2:38 PM
| "The name's Gambit. Remember it." -Gambit "X-Men '97"  |
Feaor said: Killaclown said: Well then in that case I will continue to direct people interested in seinen anime to shows like K-On!, Hanayamata, Locols, Koufuku Grafitti, Kiniro Mosaic, and Non Non Biyori.dumb threads isn't a good reason.... it helps ppl like me find something to watch and ppl like you can just ignore it so I think they should definitely stay (more ppl find something to watch here than use the threads anyways) By all means, add Yumekui merry and Rozen maiden to that list. Both manga are seinen, after all x) |
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| Mature =/= Seinen = older teens and younger adults Mature (in body) = Adults Mature (in mind) =/= Adults |
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Sonotoki said: mira-nyan said: None of them are particularly mature. And if they are, it isn't because of moe. Moe can hardly be a factor in deciding whether a show is mature or not, which is the flaw I pointed out in op's post.Moe ISN'T immature. Ever heard of Madoka, Yuuki Yunna is a hero, or Wixoss? No, that's not what I meant. I meant that moe anime aren't [necessarily]immature. And they are dark(and edgy-ish), and deep shows. |
The sun is a deadly laser |
| 2016 and the Seinen tag is still the most confusing genre in entertainment history. |
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Red_Tuesday said: You fucking lost right off the bat. How can you fail so fucking hard? Great thread.Seinen means 'mature |
I'm also filled with pure-hearted ulterior motives. |
| Seinen is for a more older audience. It doesnt necessarily means it is mature. Its just stories not targeted for younger readers (shounen). It would more than likely have more adult content like obscene language, perverted jokes, more blood and gore. Also it would give a more negative mood opposite to shounen. Shounen would often leave a sense of inspiration to the young readers and give a positive mood. The anime tags not only have one label beside it, it often has more so it is up to the viewer to choose whether they watch it or not. |
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Holybaptiser said: Red_Tuesday said: You fucking lost right off the bat. How can you fail so fucking hard? Great thread.Seinen means 'mature Even if we play a long that seinen means mature, there is no legit way to determine what is considered mature and what isn't since people having different interpretation in what they consider to be a mature series. Point is, the only way this system will work is if you yourself is the one pick and choosing what should be tag as seinen. Basically don't take the seinen tag seriously, and just judge the series for its content and not what it is tag as. |
Metalixx said: Seinen is for a more older audience. It doesnt necessarily means it is mature. Its just stories not targeted for younger readers (shounen). It would more than likely have more adult content like obscene language, perverted jokes, more blood and gore. Also it would give a more negative mood opposite to shounen. Shounen would often leave a sense of inspiration to the young readers and give a positive mood. The anime tags not only have one label beside it, it often has more so it is up to the viewer to choose whether they watch it or not. That's what makes it confusing though. Some of these anime labeled seinen don't have any real violence , language, or adult content |
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| I actually really liked Sakura Trick and Blade Dance of the Elementalers. :( |
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keragamming said: Okay... thanks for all the nothing that you made me read.Holybaptiser said: You fucking lost right off the bat. How can you fail so fucking hard? Great thread. Even if we play a long that seinen means mature, there is no legit way to determine what is considered mature and what isn't since people having different interpretation in what they consider to be a mature series. Point is, the only way this system will work is if you yourself is the one pick and choosing what should be tag as seinen. Basically don't take the seinen tag seriously, and just judge the series for its content and not what it is tag as. |
| I'm also filled with pure-hearted ulterior motives. |
keragamming said: Holybaptiser said: You fucking lost right off the bat. How can you fail so fucking hard? Great thread. Even if we play a long that seinen means mature, there is no legit way to determine what is considered mature and what isn't since people having different interpretation in what they consider to be a mature series. Point is, the only way this system will work is if you yourself is the one pick and choosing what should be tag as seinen. Basically don't take the seinen tag seriously, and just judge the series for its content and not what it is tag as. Pretty much what you said. Damn 30 character limit lol |
Ferocious_Oni said: Metalixx said: Seinen is for a more older audience. It doesnt necessarily means it is mature. Its just stories not targeted for younger readers (shounen). It would more than likely have more adult content like obscene language, perverted jokes, more blood and gore. Also it would give a more negative mood opposite to shounen. Shounen would often leave a sense of inspiration to the young readers and give a positive mood. The anime tags not only have one label beside it, it often has more so it is up to the viewer to choose whether they watch it or not. That's what makes it confusing though. Some of these anime labeled seinen don't have any real violence , language, or adult content Its all annoying...I should use my discretion. Perhaps check the other tags or read the synopsis. |
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| Somebody necro'd this thread, but for what? I thought we had already sufficiently established that the OP doesn't understand the concept of demographic. It's not the content that's mature, it's the audience, who are old and mature enough to know that maturity sucks a big one and that immature shit is just way more fun. |
Metalixx said: Far more shounen anime are rated R-17+ for violence and profanity than seinen anime are. There are more than 3x as many shounen anime than seinen anime. There are 176 shounen anime rated R-17+ and 92 seinen anime with the rating. Seinen anime do have a higher percentage of R-17+ anime (19% vs. 10%), but it's not quite as big of a difference as you make it out to be. I'm watching a seinen anime right now called "Denpa Onna to Seishun Otoko" and I bet I could show it to children without any major problems (there are some panty shots, but whatever).Seinen is for a more older audience. It doesnt necessarily means it is mature. Its just stories not targeted for younger readers (shounen). It would more than likely have more adult content like obscene language, perverted jokes, more blood and gore. Also it would give a more negative mood opposite to shounen. Shounen would often leave a sense of inspiration to the young readers and give a positive mood. The anime tags not only have one label beside it, it often has more so it is up to the viewer to choose whether they watch it or not. |
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zombie_pegasus said: Metalixx said: Far more shounen anime are rated R-17+ for violence and profanity than seinen anime are. There are more than 3x as many shounen anime than seinen anime. There are 176 shounen anime rated R-17+ and 92 seinen anime with the rating. Seinen anime do have a higher percentage of R-17+ anime (19% vs. 10%), but it's not quite as big of a difference as you make it out to be. I'm watching a seinen anime right now called "Denpa Onna to Seishun Otoko" and I bet I could show it to children without any major problems (there are some panty shots, but whatever).Seinen is for a more older audience. It doesnt necessarily means it is mature. Its just stories not targeted for younger readers (shounen). It would more than likely have more adult content like obscene language, perverted jokes, more blood and gore. Also it would give a more negative mood opposite to shounen. Shounen would often leave a sense of inspiration to the young readers and give a positive mood. The anime tags not only have one label beside it, it often has more so it is up to the viewer to choose whether they watch it or not. I was just taking the Japanese terms literally "shounen" and "seinen". So it doesnt have anything to do with a certain age range -_- Such a vague tag. I once found myself questioning what the heck is shounen because I see so much slaughter and blood in a manga series. It might not make sense but would it have something to do with which magazines they are published in. (speaking about manga) |
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Holybaptiser said: keragamming said: Okay... thanks for all the nothing that you made me read.Even if we play a long that seinen means mature, there is no legit way to determine what is considered mature and what isn't since people having different interpretation in what they consider to be a mature series. Point is, the only way this system will work is if you yourself is the one pick and choosing what should be tag as seinen. Basically don't take the seinen tag seriously, and just judge the series for its content and not what it is tag as. Sorry, this post was targated towards op not you. But at least you read all of it. ;) |
Metalixx said: The age restrictions don't exist in Japan. "Shounen" means boy and "seinen" means man, but that means that the manga and anime adapted from them are made for those demographics. Testosterone levels are highest around puberty so it's only natural that anime and manga targeted that age group would be more violent. High testosterone levels lead to interest in violence as well as committing violent acts. After the age of 19 testosterone levels start to drop and some men will develop parental symptoms which make them want to protect juvenile looking characters, particularly females. The anime meta-series "Precure" is targeted at 4-12 year old girls and 16-35 year old males because of their similar tastes in anime.zombie_pegasus said: Far more shounen anime are rated R-17+ for violence and profanity than seinen anime are. There are more than 3x as many shounen anime than seinen anime. There are 176 shounen anime rated R-17+ and 92 seinen anime with the rating. Seinen anime do have a higher percentage of R-17+ anime (19% vs. 10%), but it's not quite as big of a difference as you make it out to be. I'm watching a seinen anime right now called "Denpa Onna to Seishun Otoko" and I bet I could show it to children without any major problems (there are some panty shots, but whatever). I was just taking the Japanese terms literally "shounen" and "seinen". So it doesnt have anything to do with a certain age range -_- Such a vague tag. I once found myself questioning what the heck is shounen because I see so much slaughter and blood in a manga series. It might not make sense but would it have something to do with which magazines they are published in. (speaking about manga) |
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| Cuz kids can't understand the greatness that is Non Non Biyori. Otherwise, it would be in the top 10 already. |
zombie_pegasus said: Metalixx said: The age restrictions don't exist in Japan. "Shounen" means boy and "seinen" means man, but that means that the manga and anime adapted from them are made for those demographics. Testosterone levels are highest around puberty so it's only natural that anime and manga targeted that age group would be more violent. High testosterone levels lead to interest in violence as well as committing violent acts. After the age of 19 testosterone levels start to drop and some men will develop parental symptoms which make them want to protect juvenile looking characters, particularly females. The anime meta-series "Precure" is targeted at 4-12 year old girls and 16-35 year old males because of their similar tastes in anime.I was just taking the Japanese terms literally "shounen" and "seinen". So it doesnt have anything to do with a certain age range -_- Such a vague tag. I once found myself questioning what the heck is shounen because I see so much slaughter and blood in a manga series. It might not make sense but would it have something to do with which magazines they are published in. (speaking about manga) Saying seinen means "man" can infer so many different things. Like you said, it can lead to develop parental symptoms, leads to perversion, more violence. It is vague concept, although MAL uses that tag it also uses other tags like "ecchi","psychological" and other ones as well to help the viewer to choose what they want to watch. So seinen doesnt really explains anything at all. |
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| Hayao Miyazaki: Seinen was a mistake. |
But it's important to remember that a movie review is subjective;it only gives you one person's opinion. http://www.classzone.com/books/lnetwork_gr08/page_build.cfm?content=analyz_media&ch=30 It doesn't matter if you like LoGH,Monster etc.If you are a jobless or college/school dropout living in your mom basement, you are still an unintelligent loser. Taste in anime does not make you a better person.If elitist don't exist, casual pleb and shit taste also don't exist. |
| Right TC, too much mislead at that tag, seinen really need good plot, how the character thinks, and when adapted to anime, they really need good depiction, to ensure the seinen traits feels. Not just an artwork with killing and raping scene. Many of seinen adaptation fail to give the audience right and good "seinen" content, anime like GATE, get epic fail, where their adaptation/depiction have cute appearance and colorful anime, with somewhat lame plot, it just become generic harem 101 + edgy scene = YUCK. |
| "Seinen (Japanese for "young man" or "young men", and pronounced [ˈseɪ ˌnen], not [ˈsaɪ ˌnen]) is a demographic designation of Anime and Manga targeted at male audiences aged 18 to 40. " http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Seinen -- This tag is valid. It should stay. It doesn't also really mean more mature but it just tends to be mature. Just because you want it, doesn't mean you'll gonna get it. |
ethotFeb 4, 2016 11:52 PM
FireEmblemIke24 said: Yeah I agree with you Seinen is definitely very misleading, one example is Koufuku Graffiti which has the 'Seinen' tag and all I see is cute gals doing cute things. hoopla123 said: Cuz kids can't understand the greatness that is Non Non Biyori. When I was a kid, "cute girls doing cute things"-type shows were boring as hell. You can only enjoy them when you're older. That's why they're Seinen. HecticLeo said: I actually really liked Sakura Trick and Blade Dance of the Elementalers. :( I liked Blade Dance of the Elementalers too. I was 28 when I watched it. But it still felt like a show meant for teenage boys, with fighting and harems and magic. |
SNaG21 said: I honestly wonder how stuff that would be equally appealing to a shounen demographic appear in seinen stuff. In the case of manga, Brynhildr in the Darkness is serialized in Young Jump, which makes a ton of sense, given content that's not exactly good for minors. At the same time, Himouto! Umaru-chan is also serialized in Young Jump, and that's extremely harmless, not just by comparison, but in general. On the other hand, DomeKano, which can be dumbly graphic at times, is serialized in the same magazine as Fairy Tail is, and is shounen. Can someone enlighten me as to why this type of stuff happens? I see OPs point about seinen being misleading. While these are demographics, you can group traits and elements in a demographic that appeal to that demographic. Why does this line blurring occur? There is no line blurring. People here think that if it appeals to adults(young in this case) means that it doesn't appeal, isn't fully comprehended, isn't have appropriate content to younger people. This is totally false! Just like Fairy Tales and other kids stuff appeal to adults as well, stuff for adults can appeal to young people too. The direction of appeal isn't a one directional and exclusive one. When thinking of Seinen you're only thinking of something that attracts Young Adults, not something that doesn't Teenagers. The thinking that Seinen must exclude Shounen comes from society limitations and immaturity of people growing up. Society forces certain types of content to not be shown to audiences of certain age. So when you get pass that age limitation you can put that content, so of course those stuff will appear more now, and giving the restriction before it will explode here, but that isn't what it means to attract adults. Seinen doesn't have those contents because it isn't for kids, but because it attracts adults. People while growing up have 2 big problems, wanting to feel older and so rejecting their younger selves, and start calling those things "immature" in a pejorative way and feeling embarrassed of been seeing and even enjoying that stuff. And because they are in a learning phase there are things that they don't comprehend yet, or not fully do, and so normally younger material takes that in consideration. But note that Seinen is to attract Adults, people that comprehend kid stuff and that don't look at that in the pejorative way, because they known that they their maturity isn't revealed by what they like. Take this example. A lot of adults have pets and interact with them in a daily basis, making this is a subject that is of interest to them. An author doing a manga for them(Adults), can very well do a comedy and slice of life series about a pet and its owner. This type of series would still appeal to younger audiences, but it will still be made for adults. About violence appearing in Weekly Shounen Magazine, just has to do with the magazine accepting it! It will influence the magazine reputation, but is with them on how they want to be seen by others. |
gladisr said: GATE is not seinen. WTF? it is not seinen and not even trying to be one.Right TC, too much mislead at that tag, seinen really need good plot, how the character thinks, and when adapted to anime, they really need good depiction, to ensure the seinen traits feels. Not just an artwork with killing and raping scene. Many of seinen adaptation fail to give the audience right and good "seinen" content, anime like GATE, get epic fail, where their adaptation/depiction have cute appearance and colorful anime, with somewhat lame plot, it just become generic harem 101 + edgy scene = YUCK. also seinen doesn't have any correlation with quality. |
 "If taking responsibility for a mistake that cannot be undone means death, it's not that hard to die. At least, not as hard as to live on." |
Telemac said: Feaor said: What? So if asked you to rec them a seinen, you would recommend them those that can pretty much be considered outliers since they don't even make up like 1% of seinen in existence? That's like someone asking you an example of an underdeveloped country and you purposefully give him an ambiguous case like an emergent country whether to mislead him or something.Well then in that case I will continue to direct people interested in seinen anime to shows like K-On!, Hanayamata, Locols, Koufuku Grafitti, Kiniro Mosaic, and Non Non Biyori. I don't know what people are so hung up about. Demographics DO have to do with content, at least most of the time. Or can people really tell me that they couldn't tell a shoujo from a shonen at least 9 times out of 10? Most can. You making a faulty argument. Styles is something independent and placed on top of demographics and they are mainly demographics trends. This the phenomenon of people of a given demographic liking something and so the authors start to "pander" to those likes, and you end up having majority of authors doing that. Still that doesn't defines the demography! The same happens with genres as well. For example, in Harem the multiple girls liking the bland main character that seems to have an aversion for their advances. This is just a trend, not what Harem is. Harem is just having multiple people liking 1 person. You can have multiple girls and boys liking 1 person, a not bland main character that it isn't averted by their advances, and that he himself do advances on them. This is still a totally legitimate Harem! Right now it can exist little or 0 of them, but if 10 years for now everything out there is this kind of Harem, it will not suddenly turn to be the definition of Harem. The definition of the genre is Static, just like the definition of a demography is also! Unless there is no other way around, you should never define something by what it is usually at this time, but by everything that it is at any given time! |
| Please study more about JAPANESE SEINEN demographic. Dont force your opinion on others. |
EsperFeb 5, 2016 3:51 AM
| This salad is salty favored |
gladisr said: Expect killing and rape in manga or anime doesn't mean it's seinen. Akame ga Kill is an example of this since it is shounen.Right TC, too much mislead at that tag, seinen really need good plot, how the character thinks, and when adapted to anime, they really need good depiction, to ensure the seinen traits feels. Not just an artwork with killing and raping scene. Many of seinen adaptation fail to give the audience right and good "seinen" content, anime like GATE, get epic fail, where their adaptation/depiction have cute appearance and colorful anime, with somewhat lame plot, it just become generic harem 101 + edgy scene = YUCK. |
| So, I open the "seinen" tag on MAL, and it isn't that misleading. 1) There are violent anime like Black Lagoon, Elfen Lied and Berserk you don't want to show to children. 2) There are some of the better/serious romantic comedies like Haganai and Oreimo. Some nice battle harems too. 3) There are some stuff like "Arakawa under the bridge", "Ghost in the Shell", "Boku dake ga inai machi" and "Danna ga Nani wo Itteiru ka Wakaranai Ken" which probably need some maturity, or at least age. 4) There are some slice-of-lifeey anime like Acchi Kocci, Mikakunin de Shinkoukei and Non Non Biyori. And a number of shows that fit into multiple categories (Isuca is both a battle harem and a show you wouldn't want to show to children) The second category is a bit unexpected, but overall, it is exactly what one can expect from a "seinen" target audience if you're familiar with it. |
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